AuthorTopic: Cover-up exposed of early warning system, could have reduced Victoria bushfires!  (Read 5205 times)

Offline PODMAN

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +5/-0
 ??? :'(From the Australian newspaper 13.02.2009 ???
Cover-up exposed of early warning system that could have reduced Victoria bushfire death


CANBERRA and the states baulked at the $20 million cost of a telephone-based alert system that would have given early warning of the deadly Black Saturday bushfires, a secret report shows.

The confidential review for Victoria's State Emergency Service in December 2007, obtained by The Australian, reveals that the technology to bombard mobile and fixed phones with danger messages had been trialled successfully for the agency.

While the test run of Telstra's Community Information and Warning System was for flooding, the Victorian SES found it would work "for all types of hazard", including bushfire.

Despite this, the system was not introduced because the Howard government and the states bickered over the expense.

The internal report for the Victorian SES concluded: "Apparently governments are baulking at ... their contribution to the $20 million cost."

The Australian revealed yesterday that the federal Government was fast-tracking legislative changes to give emergency services in the states access to a national database of phone numbers so people could be warned on mobile and fixed phones of bushfires and other natural disaster threats.

The official death toll in the horrifying bushfires that ripped through communities north and east of Melbourne remains at 181 but is expected to rise to 300 as police, soldiers and emergency crews continue the search for bodies in the ashes of more than 1000 homes.

A spokesman for Premier John Brumby confirmed last night that Victoria "has been very keen" to set up a national telephone alert system.

"It did stall for many years," he said.

It is understood that NSW and Western Australia opposed the Telstra scheme, and that the then federal Coalition government was also cold on introducing it.

Western Australia has been pushing for national expansion of its own version of the "electronic doorknock" system, which is cheaper than Telstra's.

But the Victorian SES concluded that the WA service was inferior because it was limited to residential numbers listed in the White Pages. Phone alerts could not be sent to mobile phones or through company switchboards.

The report by consultants Molino Stewart for the Victorian SES said the Telstra system had been tested successfully in Stawell, northwest of Melbourne, and Mount Evelyn, east of the city. "Would be a good system for all types of hazard alert," it said.

"This has the advantage over the current systems, which need opt in and need to keep numbers updated."

However, the Telstra model failed to provide "the opportunity to keep the community educated about the system".

The report to the Victorian SES noted this was mitigated by "having a single system for all hazards across the state or even the country".

West Australian Emergency Services Minister Rob Johnson yesterday wrote to federal Attorney-General Robert McClelland urging him to fast-track changes to the Telecommunications Act during the next sitting of parliament to give state emergency services access to the national database of phone numbers. Otherwise, Australia-wide introduction of a phone alert system would be held up for a further six months.

"I know governments are often criticised for going at a snail's pace, but we've seen the tragic events in Victoria and I want to avoid a similar event happening here," Mr Johnson told The Australian yesterday.

"This is something that can give our community the earliest possible alert of fires raging towards them, floods and terrorist attacks, through phones, SMS messages, fax or email.

"It's absolutely essential, in my view."

Mr McClelland last night said there had been no possibility a phone system could have been introduced ahead of last Saturday's bushfire tragedy in Victoria, the nation's worst.

"Our target will be to have it up and running by the next fire season," he said.

Western Australia's StateAlert system had been offered to the other states and territories for free, yet none had taken it up as some were interested in Telstra's more costly Community Information and Warning System.

Western Australia has spent $460,000 developing StateAlert, which automatically calls all phones in a designated area, as well as mobile phones that are registered via a website, at a rate of 40,000 messages every 15 minutes. The running costs would be $300,000 a year.

Telstra's system - which would automatically call and text-message every mobile and landline phone within a selected area - has been costed at $40million to $66 million to introduce nationally over five years, with ongoing costs of $1.7million to $2.6 million a year.

"Some states may want to go with the Telstra system but in Western Australia we believe we can do it at less cost financially to the community," Mr Johnson said.

He said all states and territories wanted some form of emergency alert. "All that's holding it up is the ability to have access to people's telephone numbers," he said. "I have urged the federal Government to speed up the process. They could probably do (the legislative amendment) in one page ... I would like it done in the next few weeks. I am personally disappointed it's taken so long."

Mr Johnson said his predecessor had written six months ago to the Attorney-General as well as to Communications Minister Stephen Conroy, asking that they expedite changes to the Telecommunications Act.

In his letter to Mr McClelland yesterday, Mr Johnson said the Act was the only impediment to Western Australia using StateAlert this bushfire season.

A Telstra spokesman last night refused to comment on the cost of its system, citing commercial-in-confidence discussions with the states.
FAILURE TO PREPARE, IS TO PREPARE TO FAIL!

Offline Slashman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +2/-1
1 problem I see with this system is Mobile coverage in country areas. Landline is fine but who is going to be sitting by the landline phone?
Since the intoduction of the next G network most country areas have now got LESS mobile coverage than before. I know where I live is 3klm from a major Hwy and Now with the next G network I don't have mobile coverage where I use to have FULL coverage with the old system. Telstras response to this was basically TO BAD.
Country people loose again.

Offline johnboy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 480
  • Karma: +48/-15
Actually the country area I am in (north of Mudgee NSW) we have better coverage than ever on Next G. I work from here to Dubbo down to West Wyalong and back to Blue Mountains with coverage most the time. The worse coverage I found on my NextG is the Blue Mountains, a high risk bushfire area, but I have good coverage on Vodafone there.

But I would not stop the implementation of  any Early Warning System just because the lack of phone coverage.

Quote
Telstra's system - which would automatically call and text-message every mobile and landline phone within a selected area - has been costed at $40million to $66 million to introduce nationally over five years, with ongoing costs of $1.7million to $2.6 million a year.

 
What a small price for the amount of lives and property that have been lost. $2.6m a year federally is 'loose change'.
Johnboy
NSW Australia

Offline Slashman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +2/-1
Totally agree Johnboy the concept is good but with the lack of phone coverage down south is not good for it to work properly. Other phone companies are even worse than Telstra in this part of the world where the fires are.

Offline BCSO TRP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: +28/-44
As good as this concept sounds there are fundamental flaws in the theory.

Apart from the coverage issue what happens when a mobile cell is at or near capacity - a common event in times of disaster. Imagine not being able to get a line out because the cell is overloaded with the disaster warning messages coming in.
Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

Offline Roy De Soto

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
  • Karma: +23/-6
  • Starting IV with Ringers Rampart.....
it would be interesting to see if the technology exists to have a cell site broadcast a warning to every phone within its range, not to numbers on a predeterimned list.

My understanding is that current systems work by calling/txt'ing phones registered in an area for billing purposes. If you dont live there, you wont be on the list

This does not alert people who:

-Have Phones from their employer who's billing address is head office
- are tourists/visitors to an area who do not reside there (like a couple in the Marysville area who are believed to have perished)
-driving thorough or near an area effected

This would ensure that all users would be alerted, and it would recevied by any phone, regardless of carrier, so if you could make a 000/112 call, you would get this message.

sure this is no good where there is no coverage, but what is the other alternaitve, Air Raid sirens? they need to be tested, and if set off accidentally, cause hysteria (ie why the CFA almost NEVER use their old station sirens anymore)

Sirens have limited range too.


anyone with more technical info , it would be welcome!!!
Primum non nocere
First - do no harm

Nulla Vestiga Retrorsum
On an errand of Mercy - Never look Back

Lack of Planning on YOUR part , does not constitute an EMERGENCY on my part

Common Sense - So Rare it's Almost a Considered a Super Power

Offline bigfella

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • Karma: +49/-78
Why not just bog standard AM/FM radio broadcasting? You see out in country areas the signs saying UHF CH1 for emergencies. Why not, in all the towns, have signs saying something like 'Bushfire/Emergency updates - FM 99.9, AM 1234'
If there were no chickens, what would things taste like?

Offline Stephen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +3/-0
I was at an interesting forum yesterday on early warnings. The telephone system was raised. There are many problems, some already noted here, but others include: telephone and power lines being cut (many people now have cordless phones relying on mains power). A telephone system may have saved lives, and for that reason a warning method worth following up. But it's not going to solve all problems. It seems a bit of a controversy that the media have got their teeth into, and it perhaps overshadows other efforts.

Variety is the spice of ... warnings. Radio, media, sirens, door knocking, etc, fitted to the needs of the community. And it was pointed out that our current warning systems are very effective, how many thousands of lives have been saved with the system we already have in place?

Offline androo

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
  • Karma: +45/-17
Phone systems can do that if the will exists.

But as to alerts, I have to wonder...
Mid summer, scorching hot day, has been for a while - not prepared for fire?
wind picks up - not prepared for fire?
smoke can be seen in the distance, smelt in the air - not prepared for fire?
smoke obliterates the sun, everything goes dark - not prepared for fire?
Not until someone phones and says "there's a fire on the way"?

and of the 200, how  many would have left early had they received a phone call?
Andrew :)

Offline fireman2au

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Karma: +4/-0
In the cyclone regions of Australia there is a warning system which has been in place for well over thirty years.

It uses the SEWS tone followed by a specific message regarding the probable movement of a cyclone and identifies which localities are located in the warning and alert areas.

Admittedly it is only used on TV and Radio.

There is not one logical reason why the same system could not be adapted right now for any imminent danger anywhere in the country.

Admittedly it may spook some people and cause others to become overly concerned  but the overall effect would have to be a plus.

Issues such as using sms/mobile/ etc could be the second tier to rolling the system out.

Politicians and those in command it is up to you - do it now!!!




Offline HillsSquirrel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • If only you could put an Incident Stop on bad days
When you're driving through the tunnels on Citylink (Melbourne) and they have an announcement it broadcasts through your car radio.

Could this type of transmission be broadcast to radios or even TVs quickly at all. All based on the assumption you're watching TV or listening to a radio of course but could warn a broad spectrum of the community.

Up where I live (Dandenong Ranges east of Melbourne) the fire stations all have horrific air raid sirens that sound for EVERY SINGLE CALLOUT!!! If these sirens were put to better use they could notify of an impending situation or emergency that may affect you in a manner that you should consider the possibility of immediate evacuation.

Some of them are extremely loud and can be heard miles away.

Problem is they've been misused for years when they go off for EVERY callout, an entire town doesn't need to be woken for a bin fire or a wash away! Bit of a case of the brigade that cried wolf because now no one in the area even bats an eyelid when they hear them now.

Rant over.

ML

Offline BCSO TRP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: +28/-44
Those sirens aren't called 5 mile sirens for the fun of it. When I lived in the bush the siren went off for every call but if you heard it 3 times in a row you knew the brown stuff had hit the fan....
Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

Offline 36765

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Karma: +34/-76
  • Trust, Honour, Integrity, Team "Per Effectus"
I really do agree with Andrew here. How much warning do people have to have before they are truly satisfied.

Without wanting to appear uncaring and harsh, a certain degree of responsibility has to remain with those that choose to live in such idyllic environs as these people have. On the other side of the coin, there are also times when no end of preparation and planning will prevent a tragedy.